So I am training for roughly 2 years now (minus some lockdown) and still have the feeling that I don't know what to do while standing. On the ground I slowly get a feeling what my game could be, based on my strengths and preferences (halfguard and kimuras variantions being my go-to moves) but standing I feel like I know a bunch of things, but they feel disconnected, slow and not synergistic in any way.
I train no-gi (70%) gi (30%)
Bodytype 1,75m 80kg medium athletic/fast/flexible
I have very basic knowledge about foot sweeps, hip throws, shoulder throws and trips, single and double leg.
It is not a big focus at my place, so its mostly one takedown every few trainings. Rolling starts on the ground mostly, as there is not that much room and all of us are pure hobbyist with jobs who are not to keen on getting injured. To be honest I am even a bit scared of some takedowns due to an older injury from when I started (crushed my hand under my body as I got taken down, bending three fingers in the wrong direction) but want to tackle that weakness in a smart way.
What courses could you suggest to me as a beginner, to build a cohesive standup-game that gets me going on the feet?
13 Comments
Hey Barangar!
I can totally relate to your situation. Most BJJ gyms I've been in do not spend adequate time training in the stand up position largely due to a fear of injuries and falling. Unfortunately this can lead to a larger fear of falling and unfamiliarity with how to fall, take down, or be taken down safely.
For learning takedowns I highly recommend the GG courses on no-gi takedowns by John Marsh or by Vladislav Koulikov. These takedowns are a bit more wrestling oriented in nature (compared to the judo counterparts) and as a result, frequently less technical and with a larger margin or error being acceptable. You can also look at Youtube for ideas such as "5 takedowns from arm drag" and other tie ups etc.
For getting more comfortable with falling it may be worthwhile to take a few months to train at a Judo, Wrestling, or Aikido dojo where there is a high number of repetitions for falling and takedowns in each class.
Brujay, post: 62225, member: 30755
Hey Barangar!I can totally relate to your situation. Most BJJ gyms I've been in do not spend adequate time training in the stand up position largely due to a fear of injuries and falling. Unfortunately this can lead to a larger fear of falling and unfamiliarity with how to fall, take down, or be taken down safely.
For learning takedowns I highly recommend the GG courses on no-gi takedowns by John Marsh or by Vladislav Koulikov. These takedowns are a bit more wrestling oriented in nature (compared to the judo counterparts) and as a result, frequently less technical and with a larger margin or error being acceptable. You can also look at Youtube for ideas such as "5 takedowns from arm drag" and other tie ups etc.
For getting more comfortable with falling it may be worthwhile to take a few months to train at a Judo, Wrestling, or Aikido dojo where there is a high number of repetitions for falling and takedowns in each class.
Thank you for your input. I am currently sighting the courses you recommended and pondering about what to pursuit. Currently I am leaning towards armdrags > anklepick/kneepick/single as it feels more doable from my current level of knowledge and athleticism than most of the other things I know of
I think the best way is to find a partner who has a similar goal as you and commit to drilling takedowns regularly.
In the beginning, I would focus just on drilling. Try to have a clear goal every time you drill — for example, on different days you can have a different focus for the exact same drill, such as:
- learning the basic move or sequence in its entirety without paying too much attention to details
- focusing on the entry
- focusing on the finish
- focusing on a specific transition within the chain
The possibilities on what to focus on are endless. The other day I ran a session for the basic snap down, where we just focused on how to cup the hand, and where on the base of the skull the pinky-edge of the hand should “catch”. Getting that minute detail is not always possible in live rounds, but it makes a shockingly big difference in effectiveness, and it’s why you sometimes see high level wrestlers wiggling their fingers (or opening and closing their hand) for a few seconds when they have a collar tie, right before attempting a snap down. I could literally run a month of drilling sessions with the same simple sequence (let’s say snap down to double to single leg finish) and find something different to focus on every single day.
You can also add some light progressive resistance, but uke should not resist to the point that tori fails (not in the beginning at least — it’s not positional sparring).
Another thing to focus on is to be mindful as the uke. Try to think about how the technique feels, what it looks like, how to fall down in a smooth and safe way, etc. This is the perfect time to think about defense and safety, even if you are just passively receiving the technique and not actively attempting to stuff their move.
As you get better you will probably need to add in positional sparring into your sessions (such as starting from various single leg configurations, or the back bodylock, or the double leg, or a specific tie up, etc) as well as wrestling-specific exercises and stretches. But in the beginning I would really just focus on drills with non-prohibitive levels of resistance (ie, if there is any resistance at all, it should not prevent tori from completing the move), having a focus each session, and being mindful as uke of safety and recognizing what the technique looks and feels like on the receiving end.
Everyone else has some good advice, but I'd also add working on hand fighting. Work on getting into and out of various ties.
My friend and I have been training and we both love takedowns, but our gym doesn't have the softest mats, so we've been doing something similar to positional sparring. There are a few drills we've been using.
1). Handfighting push outs. You try to push the other person out of the ring/mat or snap them down to the ground. To do this effectively you have to hand fight and get good position on them.
2). Starting on a single leg and trying to finish it. I've been wanting to work on low singles, so we started sparring from a position where I have the single leg and he is sprawled over me. I have to take him down and he has to defend and break free. You could of course use a high single or over-unders, etc
3). We try to slap each other's knees. This helps with setting up shots and handfighting as well as sprawls and down blocking.
All of these will get you used to wrestling and going against someone trying to resist, but it won't be as hard on your body and there should be fewer injuries.
At my school we do have a history of starting from standing and doing both gi and no gi, which I really like. And here's the method, roughly speaking:
1) We focus on gripfighting to begin with. This results in some rolls not even reaching the ground when partners are evenly matched when we start standing, but makes the average beginner much better suited to these situations. Reaching a good position and set-up is usually the hardest part of a takedown/throw in my opinion.
2) We learn to break fall. Confidence is key, and breaking fall is kinda like escaping. Once you know how to break fall you won't be scared to try new things and get taken down.
3) We make partial drilling. We don't have to get dropped on our back to know we could've been. We practice the motion up to a point where the uke/partner knows they're off balance and just need a push/pull. This allows for more repetitions and more practice of most of the execution, especially the timing.
For your particular case I'd suggest, as many have, to contact one of your teammates and see if they want to practice from standing before or after class.
Training:
- Drill some breakfalls.
- Drill one of the most basic takedowns/throws partially (this is most of the training).
- Execute a few complete takedowns/throws so you get that confidence in your ability to break fall.
Rolling:
- First "roll" with the sole objective of getting and holding the particular position you need for the takedown/throw you just practiced. That means foot positioning, arm hooks, gi grips, head pressure. Everything. No executing the takedown/throw yet.
- Then have a full-on brief roll starting from standing. This does not stop with a fully executed throw, it goes on as a BJJ match would. This lets you practice positioning after throws.
Now, after all this, let me suggest something regarding takedown/throw selection: Pick something that will let you end up in a familiar position for you and your partner. Some takedowns/throws are better than others for BJJ purposes, in my humble opinion.
For me stand up starts with grip fighting and some kind of tie up. Who gets a dominant tie gets to control partners balance and do a take down. For me the key is to be able to control my partner during the takedown. I don’t do throws becouse its hard for partner and difficult to keep control.
First step for standup game is to win the gripfight and understand when to break partners grips.
(I am still at this phase… I have had enough practise to react well.)
If the courses here don't provide enough you can always use YouTube wrestling instructionals. Dan Gables full fundamentals is currently up and free and has some phenomenal stuff
AnthonyRenna, post: 64064, member: 36711
If the courses here don't provide enough you can always use YouTube wrestling instructionals. Dan Gables full fundamentals is currently up and free and has some phenomenal stuff
Also BJJ globetrotters in action has some good ideas.
Jorgen Matsi has some good free YouTube videos on stand up wrestling for BJJ
Wrestling Takedowns for BJJ
My approach to getting a better understanding of takedowns was to start training in wrestling and Judo.
i could not find an adult wrestling club, so I found an Instructor and did some private classes with him. I eventually found a training partner there and we worked together I would show him some BJJ and he would help my wrestling
I also started training Judo once a week
it is a lot to try and squeeze in and of course some added expense
but if you can get some hands on wrestling and Judo Instruction from a qualified instructor that will help you get a great foundation and understanding and after it will be so much easier to self learn with videos and drilling, experimenting with a training partner
Since you do mostly NO-Gi (70-30 ) just try to find a wrestling Coach and see if you can just work with and help each other
Get 10,000 reps of the double leg, and 10,000 reps of your favorite single leg with a finish.
As an older grappler I find wrestling makes my standup better where the throws in Judo take to much out of me and I get injured. so looking for a school that offers wrestling would benefit the best in improving standup.