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    Old Person Jiu Jitsu

    Course Feedback
    by adolfo5/31/2022(edited)

    It would be awesome to get some sort of Old Person Jiu Jitsu curriculum. Or at the very least a public playlist of existing courses that could represent that idea. If you all know of one on the GG please let me know, as a 50+ practitioner I'd appreciate it.

    19 Comments

    J
    JRT66/3/2022

    I've seen some very good old geezer instructionals but it seems they all have one thing very important thing in common: they mostly comprise of the basics and the progression of the basics.

    p
    ptbeast6/5/2022

    I am not really a fan of an "old person curriculum." Someone new to Jiu Jitsu, who happens to be older, needs to focus on the fundamentals. A specialized curriculum would rob them of principles and concepts that they certainly need to learn. Much as JRT6 mentioned, this is where most of those "specialized" programs focus anyway.

    That is not the big reason that I don't wholeheartedly support such a program though. There are four things that tend to be issues for older players: 1) we tend to have less stamina/cardio than younger players; 2) we tend to have more limited mobility than younger players; 3) we may have a higher risk of being injured than younger players; and 4) we may have less explosive strength than younger players. None of those issues is addressed primarily though selection of techniques. As such there is no real reason for a different curriculum than anyone else at the same level. Let's take a look at each in turn.

    Cardio/Stamina: This issue is not related to technique selection in any significant way. The best way to address this is through efficiency, relaxation, and pace of play. At 58, I regularly roll with very good athletes who are breathing much more heavily than I am. Truth be told, I am not in very good shape right now, but I really focus on those concepts and wear out my opponents.

    Limited Mobility: This is my biggest issue in Jiu Jitsu and tends to be for other older players as well. In this case, technique selection is important. It does not, however, argue for a specialized curriculum. Why? Because, while many older players have mobility issues, the planes of motion in which they have issues vary greatly from individual to individual. It is often a factor of previous injuries. I, for example, have a bad back. I have a hard time with motions that make me raise my hips up and I can't allow myself to be stacked. This significantly affects the way that I play and the techniques that I choose. One of my students, who is the same age, has knee and shoulder issues. They affect his mobility in very different ways than mine is affected. Trying to create a curriculum that addressed every potential mobility issue would limit players to the point of being ineffectual. A better approach is to sit down with a good coach and create an individualized program that addresses individual's specific mobility issues.

    Injury Risk: This is a huge issue for the older grappler. Not only do we tend to be at higher risk of injury, but we may be at a point in our lives that a serious injury could be a huge disruption in terms of career, family life, etc. Again, however, it is not about technique. Rather, it is about style of play. The older player may have to be selective about who they trust to roll with. When they do roll, they need to make sure that they are playing in a way the keeps them safe. This is primarily about posture (your body position in relation to your partner) as well as pace. This is mainly developed through rolling, though your coach can certainly give you ideas on how to improve in this area.

    Explosive Strength: This is, again, an area where we older grapplers may struggle against younger ones. It is once again, however, not an issue best addressed by curriculum. It is about making the most of the strength that we do have by maximizing our use of leverage. There is also a trade off here, Old Man Strength is a real thing, it just tends to be more of an isometric -- as opposed to explosive -- type of strength. What we have to do here is learn to maximize our personal strengths (in this case literally), while minimizing our weaknesses.

    I certainly don't want to sound like I am discounting the challenges faced by the older grappler. They are very real. As an older grappler myself, as well as a coach, I just feel that those challenges are not best addressed by a specific curriculum. Sorry for such a long answer.

    B
    Barangar6/6/2022

    One of the last Podcast volumes of BJJ Mental Models revolves around this topic. Stephan Kesting and Rob Biernacki were the guests and talk about an Instructional they created, aimed at older grapplers. In essence, they second what ptbeast explained as problematic areas

    b
    brianbowers6/8/2022

    ptbeast, post: 62900, member: 852

    I am not really a fan of an "old person curriculum." Someone new to Jiu Jitsu, who happens to be older, needs to focus on the fundamentals. A specialized curriculum would rob them of principles and concepts that they certainly need to learn. Much as JRT6 mentioned, this is where most of those "specialized" programs focus anyway.

    That is not the big reason that I don't wholeheartedly support such a program though. There are four things that tend to be issues for older players: 1) we tend to have less stamina/cardio than younger players; 2) we tend to have more limited mobility than younger players; 3) we may have a higher risk of being injured than younger players; and 4) we may have less explosive strength than younger players. None of those issues is addressed primarily though selection of techniques. As such there is no real reason for a different curriculum than anyone else at the same level. Let's take a look at each in turn.

    Cardio/Stamina: This issue is not related to technique selection in any significant way. The best way to address this is through efficiency, relaxation, and pace of play. At 58, I regularly roll with very good athletes who are breathing much more heavily than I am. Truth be told, I am not in very good shape right now, but I really focus on those concepts and wear out my opponents.

    Limited Mobility: This is my biggest issue in Jiu Jitsu and tends to be for other older players as well. In this case, technique selection is important. It does not, however, argue for a specialized curriculum. Why? Because, while many older players have mobility issues, the planes of motion in which they have issues vary greatly from individual to individual. It is often a factor of previous injuries. I, for example, have a bad back. I have a hard time with motions that make me raise my hips up and I can't allow myself to be stacked. This significantly affects the way that I play and the techniques that I choose. One of my students, who is the same age, has knee and shoulder issues. They affect his mobility in very different ways than mine is affected. Trying to create a curriculum that addressed every potential mobility issue would limit players to the point of being ineffectual. A better approach is to sit down with a good coach and create an individualized program that addresses individual's specific mobility issues.

    Injury Risk: This is a huge issue for the older grappler. Not only do we tend to be at higher risk of injury, but we may be at a point in our lives that a serious injury could be a huge disruption in terms of career, family life, etc. Again, however, it is not about technique. Rather, it is about style of play. The older player may have to be selective about who they trust to roll with. When they do roll, they need to make sure that they are playing in a way the keeps them safe. This is primarily about posture (your body position in relation to your partner) as well as pace. This is mainly developed through rolling, though your coach can certainly give you ideas on how to improve in this area.

    Explosive Strength: This is, again, an area where we older grapplers may struggle against younger ones. It is once again, however, not an issue best addressed by curriculum. It is about making the most of the strength that we do have by maximizing our use of leverage. There is also a trade off here, Old Man Strength is a real thing, it just tends to be more of an isometric -- as opposed to explosive -- type of strength. What we have to do here is learn to maximize our personal strengths (in this case literally), while minimizing our weaknesses.

    I certainly don't want to sound like I am discounting the challenges faced by the older grappler. They are very real. As an older grappler myself, as well as a coach, I just feel that those challenges are not best addressed by a specific curriculum. Sorry for such a long answer.


    Very well stated. I wish more practitioners would read this.

    Older grapplers do have some advantages, especially those with some experience, but I would argue that it's more related to mental and emotional maturity.

    Lastly, like you, I have a spine issue. Man, I'll tap from being stacked or chin strapped and would rather be crushed on bottom than have my compromised cervical spine messed with. Again, as you said, mature grapplers know their weaknesses and adjust their games individually.

    G
    GuideSites6/11/2022

    I will make a course on how to approach training as someone who is 40+ BUT it will not be a step by step technical instructor. Some things I will talk about are:

    - Mental approach
    - Physical approach
    - Safety approach
    - Some positional situations that MIGHT be ideal for an older grappler. However, everyone is different and many older grapplers can still do what the "younger" ones can do as well.

    D
    DPDDTBJJ6/13/2022(edited)

    I am a 58 year old blue belt. I mostly go to fundamentals and drill classes. I occasionally attend an all levels class and get one or 2 rolls in. But most of the time I participate in the lesson and watch the rolls. With 3 degenerative discs I have to be careful, nursing a rib as I‘m writing this. I am very selective who I roll with, I made sure this was all okay with the instructor before I joined. I have a very limited game but what I do have I’m really good at. I don’t care at all about a belt promotions. I tap quick and don’t try to force my way out of submissions. Unless the person pushes on my face, then it’s a death match!! Hence the rib injury.

    m
    mikeyc6/18/2022

    A lot of the older Jared Weiner seminars have old person BJJ. I wish I could still access them!

    c
    costahilbert6/30/2022

    adolfo, post: 62890, member: 26928

    It would be awesome to get some sort of Old Person Jiu Jitsu curriculum. Or at the very least a public playlist of existing courses that could represent that idea. If you all know of one on the GG please let me know, as a 50+ practitioner I'd appreciate it.

    Conversely, some kids Jiu Jitsu curriculum would be amazing too!
    D
    Dunamis7/5/2022

    Below TLDR, IMHO old person BJJ is universal BJJ that you can do while exhausted.

    A kid's curriculum would be great. The solo and partner drills are fantastic. I love it. But, I hate fun and love to grind.

    I am lucky enough to have trained at a gym where at the time, most of the people were older than me. They were hard core. I've watched as one by one, they folded and left due to injury. That old saying about BJJ, if you want to be the best one on the mat, just outlast everyone else was very true. There are only a handful of badasses left. Two of them have had multiple surgeries from BJJ.

    This made me very cognizant of injuries. I was hyper-aware. As a heavier guy in Asia, where most people are a lot smaller, I was always reminded about too much power.

    I have thin skin, and it hurt my feelings, so step by step I learned to do everything with good grips (no-gi). Also, when I had terrible tendonitis I learned

    Besides this, I was teaching a three-hour class. 1.5 hours of drills and learning and 1.5 hours of rolling. As anyone who teaches knows, there is a target on the teacher's back, everyone wants to tap you.

    All of these things combined helped me understand something very simple. Old guy BJJ is BJJ you can do when you're exhausted. That's it. If you couldn't finish something in the last round of your last fight in a tournament, I took it out of my A-Game. The things I teach, in group classes to my students, are always things you can do while tired.

    I don't poo-poo fast and athletic techniques for anyone, but I do ask my 22-year-old lightweights, "Could you depend on this at the end of your fight?"

    M

    Ptbeast and Dunamis have covered most of the ground here, but as an older grappler (50+) I think there are a couple more points that might be made.

    Dictate the pace as much as you can. Tie up the young speedsters to the greatest extent possible to play your game. This is easier said than done, especially in no-gi.

    Have realistic expectations. Tap when you need to to maintain your ability to train more. If you are 50+, it's probably not the ADCC finals.

    Maintain a consistent training schedule - it's harder to get in shape than to stay in shape.

    Frame rolling in class to focus on moves you are working to master. Relentlessly pursue the move of the day rather than working on 'winning'.

    Your mileage may vary, but this has worked out pretty well for me so far.

    h
    hlb20117/14/2022

    mikeyc, post: 62973, member: 3131

    A lot of the older Jared Weiner seminars have old person BJJ. I wish I could still access them!

    What happened to them?
    a
    afulldeck7/15/2022

    JRT6, post: 62893, member: 2970

    I've seen some very good old geezer instructionals but it seems they all have one thing very important thing in common: they mostly comprise of the basics and the progression of the basics.

    This is true of all jits whether your old, young, fast. slow, strong, weak, flexible, not flexible. Basics is where you win fights, fancy stuff requires attributes and athleticism that you might not have. Also, there is nothing better than to watch some old slow guy cross choke the athletic marvel at your local tournament.
    L
    LegacyArchive7/18/2022

    JRT6, post: 62893, member: 2970

    I've seen some very good old geezer instructionals but it seems they all have one thing very important thing in common: they mostly comprise of the basics and the progression of the basics.
    W
    Whiteflash7/19/2022

    mikeyc, post: 62973, member: 3131

    A lot of the older Jared Weiner seminars have old person BJJ. I wish I could still access them!

    The Jarod Weiner seminar hasn’t been uploaded since the upgrade to the new site. I notified Jason sometime ago but it’s still not been re uploaded. It had some really good info.
    t
    tsneds018/4/2022(edited)

    ptbeast, post: 62900, member: 852

    I am not really a fan of an "old person curriculum." Someone new to Jiu Jitsu, who happens to be older, needs to focus on the fundamentals. A specialized curriculum would rob them of principles and concepts that they certainly need to learn. Much as JRT6 mentioned, this is where most of those "specialized" programs focus anyway.

    That is not the big reason that I don't wholeheartedly support such a program though. There are four things that tend to be issues for older players: 1) we tend to have less stamina/cardio than younger players; 2) we tend to have more limited mobility than younger players; 3) we may have a higher risk of being injured than younger players; and 4) we may have less explosive strength than younger players. None of those issues is addressed primarily though selection of techniques. As such there is no real reason for a different curriculum than anyone else at the same level. Let's take a look at each in turn.

    Cardio/Stamina: This issue is not related to technique selection in any significant way. The best way to address this is through efficiency, relaxation, and pace of play. At 58, I regularly roll with very good athletes who are breathing much more heavily than I am. Truth be told, I am not in very good shape right now, but I really focus on those concepts and wear out my opponents.

    Limited Mobility: This is my biggest issue in Jiu Jitsu and tends to be for other older players as well. In this case, technique selection is important. It does not, however, argue for a specialized curriculum. Why? Because, while many older players have mobility issues, the planes of motion in which they have issues vary greatly from individual to individual. It is often a factor of previous injuries. I, for example, have a bad back. I have a hard time with motions that make me raise my hips up and I can't allow myself to be stacked. This significantly affects the way that I play and the techniques that I choose. One of my students, who is the same age, has knee and shoulder issues. They affect his mobility in very different ways than mine is affected. Trying to create a curriculum that addressed every potential mobility issue would limit players to the point of being ineffectual. A better approach is to sit down with a good coach and create an individualized program that addresses individual's specific mobility issues.

    Injury Risk: This is a huge issue for the older grappler. Not only do we tend to be at higher risk of injury, but we may be at a point in our lives that a serious injury could be a huge disruption in terms of career, family life, etc. Again, however, it is not about technique. Rather, it is about style of play. The older player may have to be selective about who they trust to roll with. When they do roll, they need to make sure that they are playing in a way the keeps them safe. This is primarily about posture (your body position in relation to your partner) as well as pace. This is mainly developed through rolling, though your coach can certainly give you ideas on how to improve in this area.

    Explosive Strength: This is, again, an area where we older grapplers may struggle against younger ones. It is once again, however, not an issue best addressed by curriculum. It is about making the most of the strength that we do have by maximizing our use of leverage. There is also a trade off here, Old Man Strength is a real thing, it just tends to be more of an isometric -- as opposed to explosive -- type of strength. What we have to do here is learn to maximize our personal strengths (in this case literally), while minimizing our weaknesses.

    I certainly don't want to sound like I am discounting the challenges faced by the older grappler. They are very real. As an older grappler myself, as well as a coach, I just feel that those challenges are not best addressed by a specific curriculum. Sorry for such a long answer.


    Theres a whole youtube channel that has excellent tips in this regard called the "Art of Skill".

    Are you old to Start Jiu Jitsu
    Youtube: Ngcl5fEj_lY

    Jiu Jitsu When You are Old
    Youtube: NxkXGu9_H18:909

    One of his seminars
    Youtube: 4k_He1OzdwY

    b
    barberskip8/11/2022

    I am seventy-five years old and train five days a week. Common sense is your greatest tool in training. I have also had multiple knee surgeries which also presents challenges in certain situations. Not all techniques are appropriate for me due to age and injuries and some need to be adapted to match my limitations. I also believe in stressing fundamentals which are appropriate for all ages and experience levels. It may no longer be wise to roll with people considerably heavier then you without paying a price or with a superior athlete who is more interested in winning then training, but you can continue to learn and progress. Ego is not your friend when you are an older grappler.

    t
    tsneds018/11/2022

    I still have issues with training with super heavy guys,I was drilling with a 315 pounder at an Andrew Wiltse seminar not long ago and couldn't go in to practice the takeaways from the seminar for two weeks afterwards because of how my hips and lower back felt! Why didn't I just say no to the big guy?

    H
    Hoptimus8/12/2022

    As an older guy (45) I would also appreciate it. I know that any technique can work based on skill and experience but there are some that seem better/safer for older grapplers.

    t
    tsneds018/15/2022

    Hoptimus, post: 63155, member: 29739

    As an older guy (45) I would also appreciate it. I know that any technique can work based on skill and experience but there are some that seem better/safer for older grapplers.

    Check out the Art of Skill channel I posted about above,BJJ Mental Models podcast has some good episodes on the topic as well.

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