Question about Irimi Ashi Garami

I can't envision how one would plantar flex, unless they are reaping. I treat reaping as a different position, with different goals, different ways of off-balancing, different transitions and attacks, and different retention methods.

For traditional foot-on-hip single leg X guard (ie, no reaping), the foot is dorsiflexed and pointed outwards. The toes can curl into the opponent's body to create slightly less separation. The sole of the foot is usually pressed firmly into the opponent's lower abdomen, and the Achilles / lower calf is biting into the top part of the opponent's thigh (often with backheeling pressure, which will lift your hips off the mat if they stand).

For both of these positions -- single leg X guard or reaping -- it isn't that hard for a skilled guard passer to clear the top foot. There are things you can do to make it hard for them to clear your top leg, but instead of focusing on that, I'd focus on understanding the off-balancing movements, the attacks, and transitions from these positions. To me, those skills are far more valuable than being able to maintain the top leg position.

If you get good off-balancing, it will make it much more difficult for them to clear your leg. You will often have time to attempt at least one or two attacks as they focus on clearing your leg.

If you get good at transitioning, it won't bother you when they clear your top leg.

jeiteki, post: 62732, member: 9812

Thank you Jeiteki, this is exactly what I mean. So not so much from single X but more when the opponent has been dropped to his ass/hip. I have seen some teach it with the foot dorsiflexed and some with it planter (toes pointing) Reaping and rules aside what is the difference. I see no real differnce between either of them. I can imagine that you get a stronger wedge/bite on the quad by dragging your heel back and dorsiflexing, but as you say it makes levering the foot off easy. Whereas I can see pointing the toes across (pointing to the inside) would make levering the foot off more difficult while at the same time making it much more easy for the opponent to push my foot down and clear their knee line. Why do either? What are the pros and cons of each foot orientation?

If it's on the mat, maybe they are just trying to step on the hip (to anchor their foot in place) and they feel that this foot orientation fits them the best.
I've never given it much thought as I do not use irimi ashi garami on the mat for longer than a second. It's not a good position unless you're looking to do a straight ankle lock (and even then, I think there are better leg positions for that submission). If you have an example of someone teaching this, I'd be happy to take a look.

jeiteki, post: 62737, member: 9812

If you have an example of someone teaching this, I'd be happy to take a look.

So yes, I am with you (Or rather with Danaher) when you say that its great for your initial entry into leglocking, but shit for the rotation you need for your breaking mechancs. However my concern is the defence of them (These examples were just from a quick search on youtube but you will get what I mean). So the foot position that I use is the classic dorsiflexed position (I.e. 2:20 mark: Youtube: xWrEk9MbvUc:141). Unfortunatly this means the toes are highly accessible and the foot is EASILY pressed off of the hip. An alternative position I have seen is the foot plantarflexed across (I.e. 0:35 mark: Youtube: 31Y76jeor6o:35). However in this position the ability to push the foot straight down your legs exists, thus freeing your kneeline and drawing your leg out. Is there a benefit to either? What are the pros and cons? Backheeling in the dorsiflexed position works well for me as it helps me bite into the thigh (especially when the Uke is standing and I am in the Half-X position). However the plantar felxed foot across just doesn't feel as strong for me, but this could be lack of practice. So really.. Im just looking to see which are preferred by the better leglockers and why?

Thanks

Billy

bexy, post: 62741, member: 9662

Hi Jeiteki

So yes, I am with you (Or rather with Danaher) when you say that its great for your initial entry into leglocking, but shit for the rotation you need for your breaking mechancs. However my concern is the defence of them (These examples were just from a quick search on youtube but you will get what I mean). So the foot position that I use is the classic dorsiflexed position (I.e. 2:20 mark: Youtube: xWrEk9MbvUc:141). Unfortunatly this means the toes are highly accessible and the foot is EASILY pressed off of the hip. An alternative position I have seen is the foot plantarflexed across (I.e. 0:35 mark: Youtube: 31Y76jeor6o:35). However in this position the ability to push the foot straight down your legs exists, thus freeing your kneeline and drawing your leg out. Is there a benefit to either? What are the pros and cons? Backheeling in the dorsiflexed position works well for me as it helps me bite into the thigh (especially when the Uke is standing and I am in the Half-X position). However the plantar felxed foot across just doesn't feel as strong for me, but this could be lack of practice. So really.. Im just looking to see which are preferred by the better leglockers and why?

Thanks

Billy

I think those are both just a matter of preference. With either one, a skilled defender will be able to dismantle it quickly, so you're not looking to stay there for long.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but one problem I see with the second one is that the other person can control your foot better and prevent you from transitioning to a non-reaping position to hide your own feet. A good defender can force you into a reap, stand up, and attempt a berimbolo back take. They will expose their heel in the process (to the outside heel hook), but if he's skilled at this move (and also flexible at the ankle), it's unlikely you will be able to submit them in time before set up their back take. Actually, back exposure (via berimbolo) is one of the main weaknesses of all reaping positions (including saddle / cross ashi).

With the first one, they cannot easily force you into a reap (thus forcing back exposure). They also cannot easily maintain control of your foot -- if they grab your foot, you can probably just retract your knee to your chest and that will break their grip.

One thing you can do to make the first option a bit tighter is to curl your toes downwards to make the sole of your foot more concave, fitting the contour of their hip better and maybe allowing your toes to fit flush to their body.

Once again, I don't look to stay here for long, so really it doesn't matter if they start to remove my foot, I should already be looking to transition to something else anyways.

Thank you Jeiteki. Very comprehensive answer.. Exactly what I was after.. so basically. Do what Danaher's guysdo. Hahaha