I play the crazy dog pass quite a lot. Recently I’ve had a training partner escaping with the sit up escape right when I’m trying to consolidate side control. Is there a video to address something like this?
whitebelt, post: 62049, member: 26616
I play the crazy dog pass quite a lot. Recently I’ve had a training partner escaping with the sit up escape right when I’m trying to consolidate side control. Is there a video to address something like this?
It's a legitimate defense against any pass where you are controlling the legs. A really good person who has mastered this position will hard to pass once they are sitting (assuming similar size, strength, etc).
There are a lot of details that matter. For example, are they making a stiff-arm on your near-side collar (Mendes brothers style), or are they doing a collar tie (traditional Marcelo style)? The stiff-arm on the collar will basically force me to change my head to the other side of their body (otherwise you are choking yourself if you continue to keep your head on the original side). On the other hand, the collar tie prevents me from changing sides and I have to keep my head where it was. The resulting options are quite different.
Another example: Are trying to sweep me or are they are just happy recovering guard? Someone who is attempting to sweep will be switching between the backroll sweep and the headlock throw. Someone who is attempting to recover guard may fake these attacks, but really they're just trying to shrimp away to recover their butterfly hooks. For me personally, I am much more likely to go for a bodylock against someone who is just trying to recover guard, whereas if I know they are trying to sweep, I often opt to keep my hands free so I can block their attack when they commit to their backroll or headlock (and then attempt to pass after that).
Anyways, some basic skills that will help:
1) Get a shoulder grip (in no-gi) or a horse collar grip (in the gi) and use it to climb or circle around to their back.
2) Make sure you have drilled the legwork necessarily to deal with butterfly hooks. A good player will be very adept at hooking your legs to recover, and you need to be better at blocking them with your windshield wipers or "floating" off of them with your hip switch.
3) Capture their posting arm at the wrist or elbow so you can get a Khabib-style handcuffs control (basically the same thing as a near-wrist ride in wrestilng) -- this works really well if you have longer arms.
4) Get good at bodylock passing. Oftentimes from the situp position you can secure a bodylock. I'm not going to lie, it is a pretty significant time investment to learn this style of passing, but if you get good at it then this will kill any situp escape.
So in summary, the main attacks you can use are: try to get to the back, try to get a bodylock, and try to capture a grip on their posting arm -- and most of the time you need good anti-butterfly-hook legwork too. But once again, sitting up is a very legitimate escape with a lot of options for the bottom player, and you're going to have to deal with it a lot whenever you do passes that start with lower body control. Just like the elbow-to-knee escape, whether you can actually counter the opponent's escape depends on relative skill level and also the specific details.
Thanks @@jeiteki for the long explanation. Based on my recollection, the grip is mostly a c-grip close to my tricep (sometimes elbow, sometimes armpit). He sits up and shrimps away. As I continue to drive forward, I sometimes end up having side control reversed.
How do I get a horse collar grip if I'm that far away from his neck + facing the front side of his torso/ Also, do you know if there's a GG video on this?
Guess I'll be working on bodylock passing for a while, thanks!
WB
That's the classic elbow-push escape. Out of all the grips commonly used for the sit-up escape, it's probably the best one for guard retention (although that same-side collar grip is really good too). You can't obtain a horse collar grip from here, and you also can't get a bodylock either.
But I had a question -- how is your partner getting to that grip when you're doing the crazy dog? Let's say your right arm is weaved between their legs, your left hand is gripping their collar, and you are trying to free your right leg from their half guard with the goal of establishing a smash pass / folding pass to circle to your right (there are other chains but this is the one that the Mendes brothers teach).
Which arm is he crossing across your body? It should be really hard for him to cross your left arm because you can internally rotate your arm to remove any elbow exposure. It should also be really hard for him to cross your right arm across your body because your grip should be anchored to either their bottom leg or their hip.
I don't doubt what you're saying is true, it's just when I do the crazy dog pass I can't really imagine how either arm would get pushed across my body for the classic elbow-push situp escape.
Anyways, regardless of the circumstance, the key is that once they lock out their arm and they sit up, you've lost the pass. Against someone who I know uses this escape a lot, my goal would be to try to circle my hips past north south (to my right, given the coordinates suggested above) BEFORE they sit up, or try to square up again and try to get my right arm back on the right side of my body and anchor a grip to their hip BEFORE they lock their arm out. But once they lock out their arm and sit up, the pass is pretty much lost.
The elbow push is not the easiest grip to obtain for the bottom player (compared to the collar tie or the same-side collar grip), but once they get that C-grip it's a very good grip for recovering guard.
whitebelt, post: 62049, member: 26616
I play the crazy dog pass quite a lot. Recently I’ve had a training partner escaping with the sit up escape right when I’m trying to consolidate side control. Is there a video to address something like this?
One thing that I've found that can stop that is hugging both legs and lifting them off the floor. Once both legs are off the floor they can't move backwards. From there you can cut their posts with your legs, shelf the legs and just pressure them until the give up. You need to make sure you have a good grip on the legs though. You also try to body lock them, which will either let you take their back or give you a good set up to a strong pass.
Chandlerhimself, post: 62174, member: 15938
One thing that I've found that can stop that is hugging both legs and lifting them off the floor. Once both legs are off the floor they can't move backwards. From there you can cut their posts with your legs, shelf the legs and just pressure them until the give up. You need to make sure you have a good grip on the legs though. You also try to body lock them, which will either let you take their back or give you a good set up to a strong pass.
Against the collar tie I think grabbing and elevating the legs can be a more reliable position (or rather, I should say, a more familiar position, for most people), but definitely have to be ready for a big backroll from a bottom player who really knows what he/she is doing down there. They will likely give up their collar tie to block your near leg or grab your far lat, so that’s the timing cue to base against it.
jeiteki, post: 62175, member: 9812
Are you referring to the elbow push or the collar tie? Because against the elbow push you have to get a reverse grip on the legs (head facing the feet) and then it becomes a tricky, funky wrestling scramble.Against the collar tie I think grabbing and elevating the legs can be a more reliable position (or rather, I should say, a more familiar position, for most people), but definitely have to be ready for a big backroll from a bottom player who really knows what he/she is doing down there. They will likely give up their collar tie to block your near leg or grab your far lat, so that’s the timing cue to base against it.
I agree with you about the collar tie. I was mostly referring to that, but I have actually had success with it even if they push the elbow and I end up in a reverse body lock. I find the reverse body lock a little weird, but if you can't pressure them into side control they usually just turtle. From there if they do nothing you can easily go into the truck and do whatever you want from there. The other reaction I usually get is they grab the near leg, which sets up an easy crucifix(Baret Yoshida style). If you wait too long it will turn into a crazy wrestling scramble though. The easiest thing to do is just shelf their legs and then switch your arms around. Then you can go into a leg drag, smash pass, or just keep pressuring them.
The collar tie killer is a very good way too f countering this escape/guard retention. The counter to this counter requires really good timing and is hard to do in practice. I used to use the collar tie all the time as part of my guard retention but once my training partners learned the collar tie killer it has become harder and harder to be successful with. Maybe some day ill
Get proficient in the counter to the collar tie killer, but I’m not there yet.